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  #1  
Old 07-11-2007, 10:54 PM
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GSKono GSKono is offline
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Default R&D –Nailknot Serve using the Tie-Fast Tool


In this day and age, few things are truly invented; most are just extrapolation of an old idea applied to a new concept!





In writing my spectra notes, I came up with this idea of using the Tie-Fast Tool for making a serve. The Tie-Fast Tool ties a nail-knot easily and fast! This tool came from my fly-fishing days, as a nail-knot is use to attach leader material to fly line. I also use it to snell hooks. In the spectra to mono connection, using the finger-trap method, a serve is use to start the gripping action of the spectra weave. In looking for stealth, I notice the similarity of the traditional serve and the nail knot.
  1. Nail-knot
  2. Tools and Materials for the Serve
    Tie-Fast Tool, nail clippers, sandpaper or nail file, mono to tie with, mono leader, spectra from the reel and adhesives (JB Bond one, & Pliobond)

  3. Tie-Fast Tool



    To use:


    1. Lay the spectra/leader in the channel where you want the knot to be.
    2. Pinch the spectra/mono and the end of the tying mono under the thumb.


    3. Take the tying mono to the end of the tool, down thought the slot and start wrapping back to the thumb. About eight to ten times.


    4. With the same end of the mono, insert the end in the channel of the tool.
    5. Slide the looses wraps off the tool.

    6. Tighten the knot by pulling on the tag ends.
    7. Clip the tag ends

  4. The Method

    1. Prepare the mono leader by rounding the end that is used to insert in the spectra.

    This is going to be 150# blue Jinkia in 130# JB hollow, so no tools is needed (needles or spreader tools). This is also spectra that is straight off the reel, no extra knots or connections to produce drag. The main reason for this is stealth verse convenience.

    By rounding the end of the mono leader, it will be easier to insert into the hollow spectra and have a tapered appearance in the spectra. I use a two-sided nail file for this. Fine sand paper will work.

    2. Scuff up some of the leader that is inserted in the spectra.

    This is to aid the gripping action of spectra weave. I think that this is especially important with fluorocarbon’s smooth and hard outer shell. By aiding in the gripping action, less is needed to be inserted into the hollow spectra (at least that is my thinking). With less mono being inserted, less bulk is produce, or more stealth!

    I’m thinking that the first 50% to 75% of the length of mono that is to be inserted is to be scuffed up by using some sand paper?

    3. Insert the leader in the spectra.

    As easy as it sounds! In the heavy stuff, a nice smooth rounded mono leader, no tools are needed!

    But how far is it needed to be inserted??

    I use to do 4 feet in a double wall loop-to-loop connection. That build up allot of bulk, especially in the heavy stuff, that poor bait had a lot to pull around! The main reason I’m looking for stealth! (Plus, I Hate Fishing!)

    There are too many variables to say what is the minimum amount to be inserted, diameter of the mono, type of the mono, contaminates on the mono.

    4 feet in a double wall is over kill! (I’m good at over kill!), I’m thinking that 2 feet in a single wall spectra will be more sporting, especially with the tip above.


    4. Pliobond the leader just before the end of the spectra, and slide the spectra over it.

    This is a Guyster’s tip (@ringhooks.com). There is no need to dilute the Pliobond so that it can soak into the spectra to the mono. The only thing I would add is a UtahTuna tip of lightly sand paper the mono under where the serve will be. This will assure a good bond for the glue and serve.

    5. Tie Two Nail Knots

    If one is good, then two is better? This is borrowed from the crimping method. If one fail, you still have the other.

    6. JB Glue a Two Inch Spot

    This maybe a little over-kill!, but a simple added security to start the finger-trap connection.

    7. Coat with Pliobond

    This may be more cosmetic then functional. Seals the knots from the water, make a smoother transition for the guides.
  5. Conclusion

    Haven’t field-tested this idea yet!

    Four lines of defense to start the finger trap,
    A spot of Pliobond under the spectra, two nail knots, & a spot of JB adhesive.

    Traditionally, a thin spectra or floss is used for the serve. My thinking here is spectra or floss doesn’t stretch or expand as much as mono. As the leader stretches and shrinks, the mono nail knot can expand and still provide a grip?? So the type of tying mono may make a difference. A soft, elastic, casting type of mono may do better then a hard, non-stretchy type of mono.

    The nail-knot is tighten by pulling on the tag ends, it can be over tighten and pinch the leader mono, creating a weak spot?

    In the end, I’m looking for stealth, simple, easy, and cheap!
What Do Ya Think ????????


JMO
Glenn


My Spectra Notes
http://www.senortuna.com/main/showpo...05&postcount=8

I Hate Fishing!!!!!……
http://www.senortuna.com/main/showpo...36&postcount=1

thread on Sato Crimps :
http://www.senortuna.com/main/showthread.php?t=13564

Last edited by GSKono; 04-22-2010 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:02 AM
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Jureal Jureal is offline
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Hi Glenn:

I need to digest this a bit. I am familiar with the nail knot as I come from a flyfishing, flytying background as well. This of course is different as the nail knot in flyfishing was used to connect a leader to the "nonhollow" flyline. Your nail knot essentially replaces the sato crimps or serves that we usually use in connecting our topshots into hollow spectra.

The nail knot should hold but how is it stealthy? What pound test are you using for the mono used in the nail knot? What about the two tag ends that stick out? Do the tags interfere with a nice smooth passage through the guides? What is the advantage over the sato crimps ( not including the cost of the crimps )?

The nail knot shoud work. It does use the elasticity of the mono to put pressure onto the spectra sleeve so I don't see why it shouldn't work. My only reservation would be will it get knocked off by the guides as it moves through? Pliobond should help to build up the ramp from the mono/spectra to the level of the nail knot. As I stated before, I don't like the pliobond as a topping as it seems to soften in the water. Goop, on the other hand stays firm and is what I would use. Thanks, this is great. Tell us about your testing...especially the bumping against the guides under pressure.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:23 AM
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The guy who makes JAK wind ons has been using a nylon thread for his serving material for that past year for the exact reason you have stated .... the nylon is elastic and will grip better than spectra when the mono or fluoro is under pressure and becomes thinner. I don't know what he uses for the serving material but it is nylon.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:06 AM
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Jureal,

It’s the same nail-knot, just the application is different.

“nonhollow" flyline.? You never made the end of the flyline hollow with a needle and insert the leader through that? Makes a cleaner connection. Check this out;



No tag end of the flyline flopping around. Pretty much where this idea came from!

I have not practiced the Sato’s Crimp System, but a lot of idea’s are the same. I do have one reservation of Sato’s system, that my system solves (I think?). I know that the Sato’s System is proven and It works!, but in my mind, I think that that crimp will do line damage, especially after a fish packs that line on the spool! The first fish is safe, but what about the second fish and the spectra under the crimp? Are you suppose too strip off a couple of layers of spectra before attaching the next crimp? I would! I dunno know! Like I said, I have not practice Sato’s System!




I hope you are not comparing this image to the finish product? As this image was to show how to tie the nail-knot only. There are a few things wrong with it as a finished product! 1. Hi-Vis spectra was recommended to me as NOT to be use as a finger-trap connection. The color is coated on and may act as a contaminate. 2. 30# mono was use as the tying mono, could use a smaller diameter mono for a smaller profile.

Stealthy? Compare to my other serves (bow server, half-hitch), this has a much smaller profile! I also believe that I can get a tighter serve with a nail-knot then with the bow server or half-hitches.

Mono#? Still under development, If I go too lite, I lose the expansion factor; too heavy I get a big profile. How many different mono # do you think the average long-range fisherman has?

You need to go back to Sally’s and check out the nail clippers! What tag ends?

I have not practiced the Sato’s Crimp System, so for me it’s hard to say! You’ve listed one already! I stated my concerns early in this post.

There is an ethical tackle question that Hara-San brought up in another post that got me thinking.
What if :
Moon had build your rods,
Basil or Sato provided your connections,
Guyster’s provide the ringed hooks,
Hawk or Cofe serviced your reels,
Cal or Baker enhanced your reels,
The deckhand that tied the knots and baited your hook,

Who really caught that fish???

I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with their services or product and that there is still some things I can’t handle that these people can handle, but I would like to take more of the credit of that fish! To me, this would be the biggest advantage over the Sato’s system!

Thanks for the suggestion on Pliobond, I guess I”ll have to do some testing of my own to see what I like in glues. I’m thinking that nothing will stick to spectra, but the bond is with the spectra weave? Waiting on the results of your spectra glue post!



Fishybuzz,

I check out JAK’s web site, I think that the nylon that they use is for rod building. The site is good research, I have not figured out how they insert their mono for a double wall construction?, but thanks!

JMO
Glenn

Last edited by GSKono; 04-22-2010 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:57 PM
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I tried to post an answer here but would not go....pls see my new post on doubling spectra....lol...Did this one work?
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:53 PM
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Dang you guys make these connections seem hard! Any connection under 60# I just use a piece of dacron about 18" long with a over hand knot at each end anything larger I just use 2 Sato crimps and a little bit of JB glue I have never had a connection fail this nethos has landed YFT to 191# and more sharks over 250#'s than I can count!
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:14 PM
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the nylon is elastic and will grip better than spectra when the mono or fluoro is under pressure and becomes thinner.

David, please qualify your statement and tell us how you measured the grip properties of nylon vs. spectra. If the serve is done properly while the leader is under pressure, the issue is avoided.
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:24 PM
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Dan, we are just playing with your mind. LOL

There are many good methods of making connections. I use both windons made with serves of spectra and I also use the Sato crimps.

Glenn, I have not seen any damage caused by the Sato Crimps...either to the mono nor the spectra. Those aluminum crimps are really soft...I think Garry said that it has the consistency of soft lead.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil View Post
the nylon is elastic and will grip better than spectra when the mono or fluoro is under pressure and becomes thinner.

David, please qualify your statement and tell us how you measured the grip properties of nylon vs. spectra. If the serve is done properly while the leader is under pressure, the issue is avoided.
That makes sense Basil if the leader is under pressure when doing the serving but if the leader is not stretched when the serve is done there is the potential for slipping....and I have never had any problems with your topshots which IMO are excellent, so apparently you have taken care of that issue which makes it a non issue if one uses your topshots.
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